6 Year Medical School Programs Caribbean Airline
CE) Milo Pinckney The following was posted to the by Milo Pinckney, CEO of the company that operates the American University of Integrated Sciences (AUIS) – Barbados Underground I have read through the comments made by Georgie Porgie, Hal Austin and others about the Medical schools opening on Barbados. While it is true that 31 medical schools have opened throughout Caribbean islands since 1972, and that some are in fact sub par. The whole truth is, that this situation is not universally descriptive of the entirety of US based Caribbean Medical school community. St Georges, Ross, AUC, AUIS, Saba, UMHS, AUA and others are fine institutions with successful graduates practicing throughout the US and Canada. In fact the physician referenced in one of the earlier post, Dr. Saxton is an AUIS graduate who serves as Chief of Pediatrics at a teaching hospital here in the US and visits Barbados regularly to teach and supervise Bariatric Medicine service at the Barbados Defense Force facility.
Students may apply for admission to the program at any time throughout the year. Admissions is dedicated. With our prospective Caribbean medical school. The dream gap-year jobs Teach white-water rafting in New Zealand, serve canapes on a yacht in the Caribbean or be a Bollywood extra. Caribbean and Malaysia.
Having said that, let me make it clear that I respect every individual’s right to an opinion on the subject of Barbados Medical School proliferation, but I encourage any contributor to offer an educated and fact based opinion not one promoting a negative, uninformed personal agenda. To that end let me introduce some verifiable facts to the discussion. As of 2016 the US is projecting a 250,000 physician shortage by 2025. As of 2013 29% of all physicians practicing in US hospitals are foreign trained physicians or what is generally identified as IMG/FMG. The greater majority of US based offshore medical schools are delivering an identical US compliant Allopathic Curriculum, tailored to meet the educational parameters of the USMLE board examination; which is required to be sat by all medical graduates from any and all schools across the world prior to entering a US residency program. If one was to look at the history of the seven schools i have earlier mentioned here, they will find that all of them have graduated in excess of thousand physicians who are practicing, teaching, or doing valuable research. The common net thread is that they are all making a needed positive contribution to health delivery resources available to the populations they serve.
Now, allow me to address the specific situation in Barbados. The proliferation of schools slated for Barbados says more about Barbados than it does about Caribbean Medical schools. Barbados is an Island that for the past 20 plus years has made significant investment in education. It has one of the highest literacy rates of any developed nation. It has a large concentration of skilled retired physicians who have practice experience from around the US, Canada, UK, hell the world.
If you were to be an educator in the offshore medical sector, where would you go to set up shop? Now there is always an ignorant population frightened by that which they don’t know or don’t understand. It’s human nature. The schools opening on the island will not adversely impact upon the local physician practices, Hospital services or clinical labor pool.
The historical facts have proven to the contrary on every island that has invited schools to come. ~The fraudulent claim that Students in the local hospital cause disruption to local healthcare delivery. Fact: for US based ECFMG compliant programs the students are required to complete all their clinical rotations in US or Canadian hospitals. Thus no impact to the local facility ~ The claim that all the schools are run by crooks, shysters, used car salesmen and alike. Fact: If one were to look at the Board of Trustees of AUIS they will see recognized leaders from a broad spectrum of notable US enterprises.
The AUIS board has the former council to the NYS board of regents; the highest educational body in the state. Two CEO’s of US regulated insurance companies, the Vice Chair of the worlds largest airline restructuring firm, a Harvard trained physician and 25 year veteran Barbados Honorary Council, an architect who restored the Queens Buckingham palace after fire, an internationally recognized educator/author who designed the Marriott hotel chains training program and a number of other leaders of similar scope and prestige. An additional element that warrants mention is that none of the seated board members has any financial interest in the institution and volunteer their time. A doctrine installed by the owners so as to ensure that the economic drivers never compromise the academic integrity of the institution. ~ The claim that the instructors are a collection of unqualified quacks.
Fact: AUIS faculty is comprised 88% licensed physicians with practice experience holding MD/PHD degrees, 10% licensed physician holding MD or MBBS degrees and 2% PHD degree holders teaching in non clinical elements of the curriculum. I understood perfectly what GP was trying to say, given his decades of medical experience and expertise.
But where is Ha, Ha Hal Austin to share his decades of medical experience and expertise.to debunk this dude’s well explained defensive explanations. “I have read through the comments made by Georgie Porgie, Hal Austin and others about the Medical schools opening on Barbados. Having said that, let me make it clear that I respect every individual’s right to an opinion on the subject of Barbados Medical School proliferation, but I encourage any contributor to offer an educated and fact based opinion not one promoting a negative, uninformed personal agenda.” Like. Hantswhat my friend Google gave me was over 20 years of Medical Management for Pinckney.maybe we are not looking at the same things.
Milo Pinckney Principle at Yellow Llama Yellow Llama Long Island University, Southampton Campus Greater Atlanta Area 16 16 connections Experience Yellow Llama Principle Company NameYellow Llama Dates EmployedJun 2008 – Present Employment Duration9 yrs 6 mos CEO & President Xavier University School of Medicine CFO Company NameXavier University School of Medicine Dates EmployedDec 2003 – Jun 2008 Employment Duration4 yrs 7 mos CFO Hinsdale Medical Management CEO Company NameHinsdale Medical Management Dates EmployedJul 1993 – Oct 2003 Employment Duration10 yrs 4 mos Like. Our truths include (1) That poor countries like Barbados cannot sustain the industrialization of medicine as the writer assumes and for us prevention could be far cheaper that the westernized care model.
No problem with high science but a Cuban delivery system would be much better for us. (2) That the medical schools dotting the Caribbean maybe a good business for some but in the final analysis are no more than the kind of outsourcing which happens to countries like Bangladesh in relation to the clothing industry (3) That the medical schools do not come unaccompanied.
Along with them they bring ‘big pharma’. And ‘big pharma’ have a checkered past even in developed countries. WE HAVE NEVER KNOWN ANYBODY FROM THESE ISLANDS WHO WAS COMPENSATED FOR INJURY OR DEATH CAUSED BY PHARMACUETICALS. We highly doubt whether more than 1% of your students are polymaths.
(4) Why is it that people like the writer of this article would seek, under the cloak of some special medical knowledge’, not unlike Georgie Porgie, would seek to protect himself from criticism. No one discipline can make such a general claim. (5) The article by assuming western medicine as the gold standard, does not give the reading the truth about outcomes.
It does not say, for example, that 120K people die in the USA every year from medical error. Another large number from infections contracted in hospitals. That the industry faces a galloping number of law suits which themselves prevent many practitioners from doing their work. On and on (6) Allopathic medicine has always sought to relegate alternative modalities to the province of the unscientific. Part of the function of medical schools are to extend the colonial project, just like Christianity did, is doing. Do you know what ‘bush tea’ is good for?
Or do you teach about it in your monetized schools? Does your pharmacopeia includes and studies ‘bush tea’?
(7) We have more rejoinders Like. When we look at your face we see somebody who is unhealthy Without meeting you, to us you seem like a candidate for HBP, diabetes and so on, like most of western populations are. You obviously eat a western diet, like most Is there any room for a radical approach away from the money spinning treadmill where the medical industry appears to be in cahoots with the food industry to kill people?
And what about the vaccines you promote in these schools that have injured tens of thousands of children especially in African-American communities. You have a long history of constructively injuring Black people, using us a guinea pigs.
All of these grand charges are well documented in your own literature – by way of double blind studies, peer reviewed, mostly in journals not bought off by the industry. RE I have read through the comments made by Georgie Porgie,, AND LIKE THE MORON YOU ARE, YOU THOUGHT YOU COULD REFUTE WHAT GP SAID, EH? It is INDEED true that 31 medical schools have opened throughout Caribbean islands since 1972, and that some are in fact sub par.
It is INDEED true that St Georges, Ross, AUC, Saba, AUA and others are fine institutions with successful graduates practicing throughout the US and Canada. BUT AUIS IS RELATIVELY NEW HAVING BOUGHT A SCHOOL IN THE DUTCH ISLAND ST EUSTATIIUS THAT WAS HAVING TROUBLE WITH THE DUTCH GOVERNMENT. TELL THE PEOPLE THAT AUIS DOES NOT YET HAVE A TRACK RECORD OF ITS OWN TELL THEM THAT MAN. RE Having said that, let me make it clear that I respect every individual’s right to an opinion on the subject of Barbados Medical School proliferation, but I encourage any contributor to offer an educated and fact based opinion not one promoting a negative, uninformed personal agenda. LOL SO GEORGIE PORGIE IS NOT EDUCATED OR INFORMED EH? RE Now there is always an ignorant population frightened by that which they don’t know or don’t understand.
It’s human nature. THE TRUTH IS THE POPULATION JUST DOES NOT CARE BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT GEORGIE PORGIE IS NEITHER IGNORANT OR FRIGHTENED RE The schools opening on the island will not adversely impact upon the local physician practices, Hospital services or clinical labor pool. WE CERTAINLY OUGHT NOT TO LET IT.BUT WHO KNOWS WHAT A CASH STRAPPED FUMBLING GOVERNMENT WILL DO NEXT. OR ALLOW NEXT BEFORE MID 2018 RE The fraudulent claim that Students in the local hospital cause disruption to local healthcare delivery. NO ONE MADE THIS CLAIM. HOWEVER, THERE IS NO ROOM FOR STUDENTS OF OFFSHORE BOGUS SCHOOLS AT THE QEH.
WE ONLY HAVE ADEQUATE ROOM FOR OUR UWI STUDENTS. AS ONE TRAINED in the local hospital I KNOW THAT MEDICAL STUDENTS DO NOT cause disruption to local healthcare delivery. RE Fact: for US based ECFMG compliant programs the students are required to complete all their clinical rotations in US or Canadian hospitals. Thus no impact to the local facility YOU ARE CLEARLY IGNORANT OF THE FACT THAT IUHS STUDENTS IN ST KITTS WERE TAUGHT IN THE LOCAL HOSPITAL THERE BY THREE UWI TRAINED CONSULTANTS DURING THEIR BASIC SCIENCE TRAINING. YOU ARE CLEARLY IGNORANT OF THE FACT THAT THIS OCCURRED ELSEWHERE.BUT I WILL NOT LIGHTEN YOUR DARKNESS FURTHER. RE The claim that all the schools are run by crooks, shysters, used car salesmen and alike.
ALLTHOUGH I DID NOT SAY IT QUITE LIKE THIS, YOU HAVE WELL SAID, FOR THIS IS WHAT I EXEPERIENCED IN MY SOJOURN AT OFFSHORE BOGUS MEDICAL SCHOOLS. Fact: If one were to look at the Board of Trustees of AUIS they will see recognized leaders from a broad spectrum of notable US enterprises. The AUIS board has the former council to the NYS board of regents; the highest educational body in the state.
Two CEO’s of US regulated insurance companies, the Vice Chair of the worlds largest airline restructuring firm, a Harvard trained physician and 25 year veteran Barbados Honorary Council, an architect who restored the Queens Buckingham palace after fire, an internationally recognized educator/author who designed the Marriott hotel chains training program and a number of other leaders of similar scope and prestige. An additional element that warrants mention is that none of the seated board members has any financial interest in the institution and volunteer their time. A doctrine installed by the owners so as to ensure that the economic drivers never compromise the academic integrity of the institution. MY FRIEND, THOU DOTH PROTEST TOO MUCH.
THE BOVINE EXCREMENT IN YOUR LAST PARAGRAPH HAS NOTHING AT ALL WITH WHAT HAPPENS ON THE GROUND AND YOU KNOW IT. AND I KNOW IT TOO.
RE ~ The claim that the instructors are a collection of unqualified quacks. NO ONE MADE THIS CLAIM ABOUT AUIS. GO READ WHAT I WROTE AND YOU WILL SEE THAT I WAS VERY CLEAR WHEN I COPIED WHAT WAS ON A PUBLISHED WEBSITE. RE Fact: AUIS faculty is comprised 88% licensed physicians with practice experience holding MD/PHD degrees, 10% licensed physician holding MD or MBBS degrees and 2% PHD degree holders teaching in non clinical elements of the curriculum. WHY ARE YOU HARPING ABOUT WHAT SHOULD BE SO? IF INDEED YOU ARE NOT LYING.
RE The claim that “All these offshore schools come to the islands to take and give nothing in exchange.” THIS CLAIM IS AS TRUE AS JOHN 3:16 RE Fact: AUIS has offered the people of Barbados and the government access to its sister company resources to address clinical access deficiencies experienced by the other resident schools LOAD OF BOVINE EXCREMENT. WHAT CLINICAL ACESS DEFICIENCIES? AUIS HAS LITTLE TO OFFER BARBADOS BUT A FEW LONGSTAYING TOURISTS. I HAVE SEEN IT ALL OVER AND OVER BEFORE ELSEWHERE RE AUIS has already hired local employees and is committed to annual increases in domestic hiring, AUIS has offered the Department of Health and Education revenue producing and performance enhancing tech that will benefit Barbados in the collection and use of health population data and education performance standards. WHAT GOOD BOYS RE We could easily continue this thread beyond these paragraphs, but I suspect that any reader with an interest in the truth will see that all apples in the barrel are not the same and that a great deal of relevant data is missing from the dialog. YES TELL US ABOUT THE MISSING RELEVANT DATA. THE DATA THAT YOU DIDN’T TELL THE FOOLISH MCCLEAN WOMAN, OR FUMBLE, JONES AND BOYCE.
YOU SEEM TO THINK THAT EVERYONE IN BARBADOS ARE FOOLS AND CAN EASILY BE HOOD WINKED BY THE MORONS IN THE FAILED DESPICABLE CASH STRAPPED BARBADOS GOVERNMENT. Tama Serial Numbers there. RE AUIS welcomes any guest from the Barbados community that wishes to invest the time learn more about what having a US medical school like AUIS on your island really means to the island. Call, come visit our facility, ask the tough questions and demand frank and honest answers. WILL YOU INVITE ANY OF OUR TRAINED DOCTORS TO TEACH AT YOUR BOGUS SCHOOL TOO? RE I am a child raised by a mother from the islands who has nothing but respect for my culture and heritage. It is with that background that I came to Barbados to contribute to the community and help my students attain their dreams, give back to a people that look like me and yes, make a fair earning from my efforts, for which i make no apology. YOU HAVE COME AS A PARASITE TO FLEECE THE STUDENTS, AND USE THE COUNTRY AS A HUNTING GROUND FOR YOUR PERFIDY RE Barbados is your home, we are simply invited guest INVITED BY WHOM?
THE DESPERATE CASH STRAPPED GOVERNMENT? That wish to honor your hospitality with the highest academic standards of performance. You have the right to expect nothing less from us. JONES AND BOYCE AND FUMBLE DON’T KNOW BETTER BUT I DO. TELL ME, WHAT ON EARTH DOES THESE FOOLS KNOW ABOUT THE HIGHEST ACADEMIC STANDARDS IN MEDICINE. NONE OF THEM WENT TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. TELL ME DID YOU CONSULT ANY OF THE EMMINENT TEACHERS OF MEDICINE IN BARBADOS, BEFORE YOU CAME TO BARBADOS?
OR ONLY THE THREE FOOLS MENTIONED ABOVE. RE But please. Do not speak on what you have not investigated. Do not see all apples as the same, some are green, red and yellow and they all taste a bit different. WILL SOME ONE TELL THIS MORON THAT GEORGIE PORGIE HAS DONE MORE THAN INVESTIGATE—HE HAS BEEN INVOLVED AND HAS WITNESSED THE LIVES OF THE MANY THAT WERE DESTROYED, AS THEY WERE ROBBED OF THEIR MONEY IN BOGUS SCHOOLS THAT COULD NOT, AND DID NOT DELIVER. RE But most of all, lead with intellect not ignorance and pridefulness.
WILL SOME TELL THIS MORON THAT GEORGIE PORGIE IS 1- AN ISLAND SCHOLAR 2- A QUALIFIED PHYSICIAN 3- A TEACHER AT SEVERAL BOGUS OFFSHORE MEDICAL SCHOOLS 4- ONE WHO CAN NOT BE FOOLED LIKE THE MORONS IN THE CURRENT VERY DESPERATE BOGUS GOVERNMENT. THESE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE IGNORANT, LACKING IN INTELLECT AND NATIONAL PRIDE. RE The introduction of these schools will be as positive as the Barbados community and government allows them to be. They can be tremendous economic engines shifting tax liability away from the citizens, they can be active contributors to restoring the local economy, drivers of trade and job creators, expanders of tourism and industry.
They can be wildly beneficial to the island if they are responsibly managed and embraced as opposed to feared and corrupted by personal interest. THE MOST AN OFFSHORE BOGUS MEDICAL SCHOOL CAN DO FOR BARBADOS.IS TO BRING A FEW LONG TERM TOURISTS, TO RENT ACCOMODATION, RENT CARS, AND BUY FOOD IN SUPERMARKETS. IN MY INVOLVEMENT WITH OFFSHORE BOGUS MEDICAL SCHOOL, THIS IS ALL THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN THEM DO. I HAVE NOT SEEN ONE OF THESE SCHOOLS DONE FOR ANY ISLAND WHAT THE UWI HAS ACCOMPLISHED IN BARBADOS SINCE 1967, WITH THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE EASTERN CARIBBEAN MEDICAL SCHEME. Re I speak exclusively for AUIS when I make the following offer of statement: SO THEN YOU CAN NOT SPEAK OF THE OTHER SCHOOLS ABOUT WHICH YOU KNOW NOTHING RE AUIS offers the people of Barbados access to all of it’s proprietary technology and trade methods to contribute to the economic recovery of the island.
Only through this kind of partnership will the school and the island benefit equitably and indefinitely. MEDICAL CARE AND EDUCATION HAS EXISTED IN BARBADOS LONG LONG BEFORE AUIS, AND CONTINUES TO BE IN GOOD HANDS AT UWI BARBADOS DOES NOT NEED AUIS OR ITS “proprietary technology and trade methods to contribute to the economic recovery of the island Barbados.” MEDICAL CARE AND EDUCATION IN BARBADOS, DOES NOT NEED AUIS NOR DO WE NEED AUIS FOR OUR ECONOMIC RECOVERY.WE JUST NEED TO VOTE OUT FUMBLE AND THE DEMS. AUIS DID NOT DEVELOP THE MEDICAL CARE AND EDUCATION THAT EXISTED IN BARBADOS BEFORE THE ADVENT OF BOGUS MEDICAL SCHOOLS OF ITS ILK. AND WE CAN CARRY ON WITH OUT AUIS OR THE OTHER OFFSHORE BOGUS CARRIBEAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS. Re Let the truth ring out load [loud]! When I spoke, I spoke LOUDLY, CLEARLY, ACCURATELY AND TRUTHFULLY, BECAUSE I HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN THESE BOGUS OFFSHORE SCHOLS AND I HAVE SEEN HOW THEY OPERATE IN THEIR INTENT THEIR EXTENT and THEIR CONTENT I HAVE NOT MET ONE TEACHER, OR DEAN AT ANY OF THE OFFSHORE BOGUS CARRIBEAN MEDICAL SCHOOLS AT WHICH I TAUGHT, OF THE CLASS AND CALIBRE OF THE LATE PROF SIR KARL STUART STANDARD, PROF GEORGE NICHOLSON, PROF SIR HARRY ANAMUNTHODO, PROF SIR GEORGE ALLEYNE, AND I CAN GO ON. NOW I SUGGEST THAT YOU GO BACK TO YOUR MARK, AND RUN IN AGAIN AND BOWL AT THE STUMPS, BEARING IN MIND THAT IT IS NOT MCCLEAN, JONES, BOYCE OR FUMBLE AT THE OTHER END.
WELL WELL ET AL It is most instructive that you have found out the info below about this Pickney fool, who seeks to contradict GP. CEO & President Xavier University School of Medicine CFO Company NameXavier University School of Medicine Dates EmployedDec 2003 – Jun 2008 Employment Duration4 yrs 7 mos CFO School of Medicine It is noteworthy that in his exegesis that he does not list XAVIER medical school in Aruba, at which he was CFO and CEO &PRESIDENT as one of what he considers one of the stellar offshore schools. After all it seems he led its demise. If you read about XAVIER on valueMD or Higher Ed jobs ads, you will find that for the last ten years or so, the posts about Xavier are far from flattering, and that staff do not last there long, and that any one time there are multiple advertised vacancies for lecturers.
Xavier is a most unethical school that started in Bonaire, by going next door and literally stealing its first students and staff members from St James medical school. It also sent its scout to curacao in early 2005 to poach students from a school there. Xavier later moved to Aruba, where it continued its unethical practices to both staff and students as reported on valueMD.
XAVIER WAS ALSO KNOWN FOR RACISM AT THE TIME THAT YOU POINT OUT THAT PICKNEY WAS THERE. This Pickney fool wants to educate us about offshore bogus Medical Schools.
He started by misinforming us that “31 medical schools have opened throughout Caribbean islands since 1972”. Of course this is quite false, as the first schools came into existence in 1978. I personally sat in 1979 in an Anatomy session in the very first batch at Ross (then called the University of Dominica) in the lobby of a motel out side of Roseau, as a visitor and a guest of my cousin. When SGU transferred operations to the St Joseph Hospital here in Barbados, following the American intervention into Grenada, I had the privilege of performing Kocher’s maneuver on one of their students with a dislocated shoulder. One of my friends from the UWI class of 80 was then teaching Anatomy for SGU. Let us talk about all of these schools that failed and caused tremendous grief to students.
In 2002, there was a school in Nevis run by a Trinidadian doctor, which eventually transferred to Belize. When this doctor died, his wife, a nurse tried unsuccessfully to carry on operations. Soon thereafter MUA-Belize flunked. Around late 2004 St Christopher which operated in England with a charter from Senegal experienced its demise with great disruption to the lives of many. When when certain teachers at IUHS in St Kitts quit, this school engaged a man who had not passed his ECFMG exams as the President of this essentially ONLINE MEDICAL SCHOOL IUHS closed temporarily, but eventually resurfaced as an ONLINE MEDICAL SCHOOL The unqualified ex President of IUHS then went on to establish St THERESA MEDICAL SCHOOL, in St Kitts, which met an early demise. Windsor operated for a good while in an old shed on the Basseterre docks, until it developed its current building in Cayon. It then was blessed with many students.
Because of its unethical practices it is currently on the brink, with very few students enrolling for the last two semesters. Burnett Medical School, founded by a Haitian RC priest and educator, began in Haiti before transferring to St Kitts where it operated above an auto parts store before reaching its demise. Malik’s attempt in St Kitts did not get too far, especially after one of its very few students posted several photos on ValueMD of its most unsanitary environs, which I witnessed for myself.
St Helens opened with a bang with great intent in late 2012 and lovely content on its website, but had descended into the abyss within 2 years. St Martinus was closed temporarily in 2008 after its owner failed to pay the staff for three months or moreand they left en masse. Then there was SPSOM/IMSA/JBGDL cerca 2006-2009 Oh the woe suffered by hundreds of students who paid good money to attend these schools!
AUIS was St Eustatius up to about a year ago. This school was started in a garage on this Dutch island by a British trained doctor who defected from Saba, and then went on to become the first Dean in a school in Curacao. With the history of a failed CEO of XAVIER, in charge of AUIS, CAN WE REALLY EXPECT A GREAT DEAL FROM THIS BOGUS MEDICAL SCHOOL? Halya want attentionas soon as am gone couple hours you pop up.the dude said ya ignorant and uninformed as I have said on here many times, how else would we know how much experience he has in medical management.it’s not like he posted his resume in the article.it’s just like you to not do ya homeworkbesides stalking..if we did not research it.we wont know he had 23 years of experienceI just looked a little further than Hants did. Ya acting like I am the one called you a jackass in this instance, answer Pinckney, not me. GP is man enough and doctor enough to represent his accusations.why aren’t you representing yours, ya too obsessed with me, thats why.at least pretend to be a journalist today and answer the man. Answer Pinckney.lol Like.
Jack ass Pickney, and I am insulting jackasses here. Let us talk about the unethical practices witnessed at bogus offshore schools, and we will not mention the myriad of instances reported on ValueMD since its advent cerca January/February 2003.
Lets talk about the school that operated one month crash courses for its students who were nurses, and chiropractors mainly. Lets talk about how many of these doctors could not be licensed in their states. Lets talk about all the unethical things the owner of that School did. He so had the politicians on his payroll, that on arriving on that island’s airport, you did not have to go through customs, since his night time driver, was an airport red cap who would take your baggage and whisk you away. Lets talk about the teacher who was offered a job at XAVIER,under your watch to teach Biochemistry, and when you allrealized he was black you said that your Organic Chemistry teacher would teach the Biochem. It is well known that that did not happen because the did not have a clue!
Lets talk about the black teacher who was fired at a school because his knowledge, medical experience and efficiency was far superior to both the Dean, and his colleagues. This black man was replaced by a man who was not a doctor or a PhD in any of the Basic Sciences, and who had a history of exchanging grades for sex, a practice for which he was subsequently fired. Pickney, lets talk about the Dean of the school who cussed one of his female students in front of staff one Bank Holiday because she would not pass up the “pussy.” Lets talk about the schools that fail students unfairly and then charge them exorbitant fees for “ retakes.” Lets talk about the fact that there are no external examiners at any of these schools to supervise exams as is the case at UWI. Does your school bring in external examiners, who are not only eminent physicians from the UK, the US and Canada, and often the author of text books men of the caliber of Sir Harold Ellis? Lets talk about the owner and President of the school, who says that the ECFMG objectives is not a syllabus, but claims to prepare his students for the ECFMG exams.
Is this fair? By the way, how is it that the three UWI schools that don’t claim to prepare students for the ECFMG, have pass rates for this exam comparable with ROSS & SGU, which does? HOW IS IT THAT ALL OTHER SCHOOLS ARE FAR FAR BEHIND in their pass rates for this exam. Lets talk about the owner and President of the school, who, after fleecing his students for four semesters and offering them poor training- including having 3 teachers replaced in one semester, just as you did at Xavier- and then saying “we will weed them out at Step 1 exam.” Lets talk about the owner and President of the school, who conducted operations in a building abandoned by the Government, because of asbestos? Lets talk about the owner of the schools that sent thugs deep into Mexico to harm ZTRUTH, after his masterful posts on their activities on both ValueMD and the now obsolete GUIDE TO OFFSHORE MEDICAL SCHOOLS.
This owner also sent his thugs elsewhere after ZTRUTHS partner, but he was arrested. Come Pickney boy, you want to contradict GP? Let GP tell the world further secrets about the BEHIND THE SCENE ACTIVITIES OF BOGUS OFFSHORE MEDICAL SCHOOLS IN THE CARRIBEAN? Pachamama November 22, 2017 at 11:55 AM “That poor countries like Barbados cannot sustain the industrialization of medicine as the writer assumes and for us prevention could be far cheaper that the westernized care model.
No problem with high science but a Cuban delivery system would be much better for us.” True. Especially as the life expectancy of Cubans is better that the life expectancy of black Americans, and the Cubans have spent far far less to arrive at that.
Sadly expensive industrialized medicine does not necessarily produce better outcomes. @ Gabriel Pity the man is not a firebrand politician of the tawmadams type.Buhbaydus GDP would be now worth at least BD$15bill. +++++++++++++++++++++++ and local political brass bowls would be keeping their RH selves quiet bout the place (right honourable) Years now Bushie has been saying that. And prodding GP to abandon Zoe, and come home and deal with these shiite politicians bout here.
But instead, like Caswell, he waste his time putting licks in nonentities – in GP’s case, these mock medical schools. And Bushie LOL ha ha ha Like.
FOOLBERT PICKNEY BOY LET ME PUT SOME MORE LICKS IN YOUR TAIL To that end let me introduce some verifiable facts to the discussion. As of 2016 the US is projecting a 250,000 physician shortage by 2025. As of 2013 29% of all physicians practicing in US hospitals are foreign trained physicians or what is generally identified as IMG/FMG. TELL US SAH, WHAT DOES THE ABOVE STATISTICS HAVE TO DO WITH BARBADOS, OR IMPROVING HEALTHCARE IN BARBADOS. The greater majority of US based offshore medical schools are delivering an identical US compliant Allopathic Curriculum, tailored to meet the educational parameters of the USMLE board examination; which is required to be sat by all medical graduates from any and all schools across the world prior to entering a US residency program.
TELL US SAH, WHAT DOES THE ABOVE BULLSHIT HAVE TO DO WITH BARBADOS, OR IMPROVING HEALTHCARE IN BARBADOS. If one was to look at the history of the seven schools i have earlier mentioned here, they will find that all of them have graduated in excess of thousand physicians who are practicing, teaching, or doing valuable research. ALTHOUGH THIS MAYBE TRUE OF ROSS, SGU, AUC, MUA, SABA IT IS CERTAINLY NOT TRUE OF ANY OF THE SCHOOLS NOW OPERATING IN BARBADOS IT IS CERTAINLY NOT TRUE OF AUIS OR ITS PRECURSOR ST EUSTATIUS. YOU KNOW AS I DO THAT THE PERCENTAGE PASS RATE FOR OFFSHORE SCHOOLS OTHER THAN SGU, ROSS AND AUA IS LESS THAN 25 PERCENT The common net thread is that they are all making a needed positive contribution to health delivery resources available to the populations they serve. THIS IS WHAT WE IN BARBADOS CALL A NASTY STINKING LIE, AND A LARGE PATTY OF BOVINE EXCREMENT TELL US ISLAND BY ISLAND, AND SCHOOL BY SCHOOL HOW THIS IS SO.
ITEMIZE THE “needed positive contribution to health delivery resources available to the populations they serve.” Now, allow me to address the specific situation in Barbados. The proliferation of schools slated for Barbados says more about Barbados than it does about Caribbean Medical schools. Barbados is an Island that for the past 20 plus years has made significant investment in education.
It has one of the highest literacy rates of any developed nation. It has a large concentration of skilled retired physicians who have practice experience from around the US, Canada, UK, hell the world. If you were to be an educator in the offshore medical sector, where would you go to set up shop? THERE HAVE BEEN BOGUS OFFSHORE MEDICAL SCHOOLS ALLOVER THE CARRIBEAN SINCE 1978. HOW COME ALL OF A SUDDEN HAVE YOU FOLK IN THE BOGUS MED SCHOOL INDUSTRY COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT If you were to be an educator in the offshore medical sector, where would you go to set up shop? BECAUSE FORMER GOVERNMENTS DID NOT ALLOW IT AND BECAUSE FUMBLE FOOLS ARE CASH STRAPPED. Now there is always an ignorant population frightened by that which they don’t know or don’t understand.
It’s human nature. YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF JACKASS. AFTER EXTOLLING THE GREATNESS OF BARBADOS’ EDUCATION IN ONE BREATH, HOW DO YOU WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF YOUR MOUTH CONCLUDE THAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH ‘‘an ignorant population frightened by that which they don’t know or don’t understand.’’ The schools opening on the island will not adversely impact upon the local physician practices, Hospital services or clinical labor pool. The historical facts have proven to the contrary on every island that has invited schools to come. OUR EXPERIENCE WITH UWI AT QEH SINCE 1967 HAS TAUGHT US HOW A MEDICAL SCHOOL IMPACTS ‘’upon the local physician practices, Hospital services or clinical labor pool.’’ YOU HAVE NOTHING TO TEACH US. The fraudulent claim that Students in the local hospital cause disruption to local healthcare delivery. OUR EXPERIENCE WITH UWI AT QEH SINCE 1967 HAS TAUGHT US ALL ABOUT THIS Fact: for US based ECFMG compliant programs the students are required to complete all their clinical rotations in US or Canadian hospitals.
Thus no impact to the local facility THIS IS A BIG STINKING LIE. WHILE THIS MAY BE TRUE FOR BOGUS OFFSHORE US TYPE MEDICAL SCHOOLS, FMG’S FROM PROPER SCHOOLS FAR AND WIDEINCLUDING UWI are NOT required to complete all their clinical rotations in US or Canadian hospitals. WHAT IS INDEED TRUE IS THAT THE MAJORITY OF BOGUS OFFSHORE US TYPE MEDICAL SCHOOLS, ARE CURRNTLY SCRAMBLING TO GET ADQUATE NUMBRS OF HOSPITAL SPOTS FOR THE CLINICAL ROTATIONS FOR THEIR STUDENTS.
The claim that “All these offshore schools come to the islands to take and give nothing in exchange.” TELL US ISLAND BY ISLAND, AND SCHOOL BY SCHOOL HOW THIS IS NOT SO. ITEMIZE WHAT EACH SCHOOL HAS GIVEN Fact: AUIS has offered the people of Barbados and the government access to its sister company resources to address clinical access deficiencies experienced by the other resident schools, TELL ME WHAT clinical access deficiencies CAN A POOR RAKEY BOGUS SCHOOL OFFER THE WELL ESTABLISHED UWI AUIS has already hired local employees and is committed to annual increases in domestic hiring, HOW MANY MAIDS AND CLERK TYPISTS AND SECURITY GUARDS DOES AN OFFSHORE BOGUS MED SCHOOL NEED TO HIRE MAN. YOU THINK ALL OF US ARE DONKEYS MAN. AUIS has offered the Department of Health and Education revenue producing and performance enhancing tech that will benefit Barbados in the collection and use of health population data and education performance standards. GIVE US RELEVANT DETAILS We could easily continue this thread beyond these paragraphs, but I suspect that any reader with an interest in the truth will see that all apples in the barrel are not the same and that a great deal of relevant data is missing from the dialog. YOU GOT THAT RIGHT.
BOGUS OFFSHORE MEDICAL SCHOOLS HAVE MAINLY ROTTEN APPLES IN THEIR BARRELS PLEASE KINDLY SUPPLY THE ‘”relevant data missing from the dialog” AND LEAVE OUT THE BULLSHIT. AUIS welcomes any guest from the Barbados community that wishes to invest the time learn more about what having a US medical school like AUIS on your island really means to the island. WE KNOW ALL READY CHARLATANS RIPPING OFF STUDENTS AND DESTROYING THEIR DREAMS SOME LONG STAY TOURISTS WHO RENT CARS AND ACCOMODATION AND SPEND A FEW DOLLARS IN THE SUPRMARKETS AND FAT FOOD PLACES WHO WILL CAUSE RENTS TO GO UP AND CAUSE POOR LOCALS NOT TO AFFORD TO RENT ACCOMODATION Like.
The exact a number of US-IMGs and non-US citizen IMGs who obtained first-year positions in the 2014 post-match supplemental process or later is also unknown, but at least in surgery, about 450 positions that were available after the initial match results were released consisted of nearly all preliminary slots good for only one or in some cases, two years of general surgery training. That amount of training is insufficient for obtaining board certification, but some prelim residents do progress to 5-year positions as I noted in a recent.
Anonymous said. Thanks for the stats. If these top 2 Carribean schools are churning out 750 grads a year each, then it is obvious they are diploma mills. Few US schools push out that many. Are all these off-shore schools not private businesses?
So at least a few people have done well. Since few prelimimary surgery interns go on to a full surgery program, where do they end up? Anesthsiology and pathology are moderately competitive these days, and I assume internal med and ER programs would require them to start anew. Anonymous said. The pluses and minuses of off-shore schools are easier to assess now with all the online resources available.
So I expect the number of applicants to decline. However, I don't think the number of grads to go down for a while. Some of these schools pay US hospitals big bucks to take in their students for clinical rotations, and cash-strapped inner city hospitals find the arrangement attractive. The 50% chance of being a US doctor after spending 4years and 200k is prob. Still attractive to many undergrads who all of course believe they are above average.
Nevermind GPA and MCAT. When young, we all live in Lake Wobegon. Anonymous said. I think although this is a good article to give many prospective students a reality check, it should not be used as a reason to NOT pursue ones dreams in the medical field via the carribean. There are a good amount of students in the carribean that are more than US medical school caliber, but due to unfortunate circumstances have had to turn to this route. Whether it was one college class that torched their GPA or due to the simple fact that the instate medical colleges surrounding their particular area were extremely competitive; there are more than enough examples and reasons. At the end of the day, if you put in the work to get good board scores AND make connections, you will have a great shot at getting your residency choice.
And if you talk to some of the top surgeons at hospitals, they will tell you the carrbibean surgery residents they do have are the hardest working because they know they are the underdogs. Quite true Scalpel. I transitioned from a prelim to a categorical spot. In my categorical program, there were two guys who said 'Enough' a few months in their second years. Although they looked great on paper and were conscientious physicians, they both said that they simply could not hack it (back then the call ranged from every other to every third night, depending on the service). Grades and test scores aren't everything, so if the desire is truly there, the prelim route is about the best shot.
If time and money are not factors (not sure who would fall into that category), one could do a residency in, say, internal medicine, then reapply for a categorical position. I know that every day I wished I knew more medicine. I still think the best thing would be to have everyone do a general intern year, rotating through the basic services, and then deciding near the end on a specialty. I know, not going to a happen. Anonymous said. Re Anon 3: Working hard is good in any field. The top 2 Caribbean schools graduate 750+ *each*, while no American MD school even puts out 250 a year.
Although it does not come up in polite conversation, it is a given that an off-shore grad is a result of not getting in any one of thousands of American MD and DO spots. Contrary to popular opinion, it is not all that difficult to get into medical school The current acceptance rate for MD schools is around 40-50%. If you didn't get into an AmericanD or DO school, a prospective student should just go do something else and get on with life.
There are plenty of financially comfortable, rewarding careers ourside of medicine. ^^lol just stepped in on this convo and that was quite a ridiculous comment. Not everyone can afford to apply to all these schools you speak of. Most students I know in the Carribean tried their luck at the few local schools they thought they had a shot at and if all else failed, went offshore (since theres even less of a chance out of state). While there are many failures, there are also many success stories from offshore grad students, all you have to do is look. I hope the ones you refer to as needing to just go get on with life are the same students who outperform you in the future sir.
Anon: As the wife of an off shore grad, I can personally attest to the fact that some students that are plenty capable of being great physicians just don't get accepted to US med schools. Your comment seems a bit harsh and I doubt that all the physicians out there practicing that attended off shore schools would appreciate hearing that they should have 'just gone on with life' after not being accepted in the US.
However, as the author stated, students who attend offshore schools should be aware of the odds and the fields in which most off shore applicants end up in so as not to be shocked by the reality and stigma of being an IMG. I completely agree, generally, regarding the limited value of research.
But there is a paucity of alternatives. The challenge is how to become a 'known quantity' in a program once one has failed to match.
Since we do not have preliminary spots, and since most of our 'pre-residency fellowships' are disappearing (and of dubious value), I don't know of any way other than research. I completely agree that doing clinical work is superior - but only a few general surgery programs will allow preliminary residents to rotate on neurosurgery, and only for a limited time.
Another option, which I did not think of earlier, would be to backup or scramble into a related specialty (radiology, neurology, even anesthesia) which requires a separate preliminary year. Then if one could do the preliminary year at a university hospital with neurosurgery residents, perhaps a highly motivated applicant could maneuver to have a month on the service and attempt to parlay that into a job if one were to open up at that program.
Quite a few 'if's'. Either way, the path from FMG/IMG to neurosurgery (and, as you mentioned, general surgery) is too tenuous. My best advice is that one should work tremendously hard early on to gain admission to a US MD medical school if one wants to be a neurosurgeon in the United States. Since going thru residency, I've worked with a lot of prelims. I give them all the same advice which is to seek opportunities outside surgery. Still a lot of them insist on pursuing 'the dream.'
That kid with the wife blogging for him still has the deck stacked against him. What he doesn't realize is that he will be competing in the match again nxt year against a brand new set of American medical school grads. He doesn't realize that there is a stigma against even American school grad prelims.
Its like marrying someone with kids. Another reason he's in a bad position is that he will have difficulty getting meaningful letters of recommendation or more importantly a phone call. The most important/influenential people will be working with chief residents. Its not like in medical school where you can tag along with one chairman/chief of division and suck up all day to get a letter. His job as an intern will be to do mindless paperwork, discharge summaries, blood draws and basic floor management.
Intern work = PA level work and its hard to assess who will be a good surgeon from that level. Granted you can tell about someone's work ethic, level of drive, ability to eat s**t which is important. Another important thing is the ABSITE. Interview offers are given before the absite is even taken. Absite performance is crucial. He will be competing with indian kids (see AIMS) and foreign practice surgeons who are bred to take tests. He is happy to gotten this prelim spot?
Its not really a blessing. I see it as very high risk.
His likely outcome will be fighting for a prelim two spot. He can always hope that one of his co-residents leaves for research (as long as one isn't slotted to come back). Then again, he will need to have the best absite score/work ethic. After the prelim two year you are looking at research years which are by no means guarantee into surgery. And the better of a surgeon he wants to be, the less he is going to see his wife and kid.
He will be staying late to finish up tasks. He will be fudging workhours to show desire.
He will be studying and reading for the ABSITE instead of spending time with his family. Ultimately he's playing catch up.
You gotta pay the piper at some point. He went to St George's which had lower standards of admission. He needs to demonstrate that he's as good as a kid from AIMS with a 99 absite and ridiculous work ethic or a kid from an American medical school who just didn't match ortho. Who is their right mind would want to go to any med school today.
Just have a peek at the website which shows what your physician gets paid from medicare. For example if you bill for say a pneumonia patient- 250 office visit, 90 bucks for IV rocephin, 65 bucks for EKG, 85 bucks for chest x ray, 45 bucks for oxygen therapy, 45 bucks for nebulizer treatment, 100 bucks for IV s and monitoring, 35 for pusle ox, time spent on patient 4 hours. 35 bucks for cbc with diff, 125 bucks for CMP. Total billed- 1610. Now lets see how medicare rapes you.Office visit level 4 reimbursed 124 bucks, iv rocephin 1 dollar, EKG 12 dollars, chest x ray 12 bucks, O2, pulse ox and neb treatments, iv fluids, 0 bucks, cbc 12 bucks CMP 3 bucks for drawing and handling, total reimbursement- a big 164 bucks. Their you go guys.
Not even close to covering your overhead. The dwindleing reimbursements will become the norm in the future. The cheaters seem to be the only ones that get paid well. Anyone that has gotten paid well is under investigation and will probably be moving into a jail cell.
The students/grads that don't get a residency may be the lucky ones. Pamchenko, you have said it a little more explicitly than I. It is indeed a tough situation.
Most of the prelims I know who have moved into categorical slots have been very lucky. Some do make it. Your advice about working hard is correct. Scott, I agree with much of what you said. Here's an interesting statistic from October of last year.
The number of applicants to med school in 2013 was the highest it has ever been. I think that they just don't know what they are getting into. They will find out. As a surgeon I really don't rely on luck. I try to bet on likelihoods and weigh the pros and cons of every kind of decision I make.
He's more likely to get a spot outside of surgery than a categorical position in surgery. Ultimately that prelim needs to ask himself what is most important. Most likely having a family, paying for wife/kids/home/lifestyle/kids sports/kids college/keeping up with the jones will be more important than whatever career he does. I know that's what's happened to me. You do what you need to do to pay the bills and take care of your family.
The smart thing to do would be to use that hard work ethic and try to get an anesthesia or radiology spot where he can get the money he needs to pay for his family. My friend in IR makes double my salary. He continues to chase this dream, it will cost years of earning potential. At least once a month I seriously regret being a surgeon and wish I was in finance. If he is lazy or doesn't pan out, he can always go into PM&R and then match some noncompetitive pain fellowship and do injections all day, make surgeon type money and have a much better lifestyle where he can watch his kids grow up.
Anonymous said. Almost all physicians still earn 6 figures, and some make 7 figures every year, as detailed in recent NYTimes articles. Prelims do make it to a full residency, usually when some junior in their progam drops out late in the year. I agree that anyone starting a prel.year should immediately start looking into other specialties. But, what are the numbers? How many prelim.
GS get into a full residency in GS or ENT or urology or ortho? What other specialties would accept a surg. Prelim as a full year in their requirements? Anesth and path, maybe radiology, are the only ones that come to mind. Regarding neurosurg, I have worked with many IMG neurosurgs.
Including an American Carribean grad. It may be tough, but it is doable. Isn't neurosurg a less competitive residency than ortho. ENT, urol and derm?
I don't know anymore since leaving academics 10 years ago. Anonymous said. That's kind of cruel. Yes, general surgeons are poorly paid, but it is still 200-400 k for most. Radiologists earn more, which is prob.
Why it is a highly competitive residency. The fact is that as an unmatched American IMG, an applicant is marked as damaged goods. Radiology, and to a lesser extent Anesthesiology, are competitive spots, so are not just automatic for GS rejects.
What struck me about the blogger's post was that the husband applied to 100 GS spots, but not even one alternative specialty. @Pam We are very much aware of the situation we are in. However, it is certainly a blessing to have a paycheck coming in this next year vs. Josh was silly to not have applied to back up programs in IM or FM where he likely would have easily matched. He will not be making the same mistake twice and while he hopes to stay in GS, he most definitely will be applying to back up specialties for the 2015 match. We have no choice but to try and see the glass as half full.
The GS program at UMass took one of their prelims from SGU last year into their categorical program this year and the PD who interviewed him assured him that they take good care of their prelims in order to help them move forward in whatever field they choose. Sure, it could be BS, but we hope it isn't. As you stated, what is most important is taking care of himself, his wife, and his child which is why he took the prelim position to begin with. During the SOAP, he would have been happy with anything, but post SOAP, this was the only option he was given. Anonymous said.
Dear Sir, My scores on STEP 1/STEP2 were 250/248. I had letters from the CVTS PD at a large university program and a letter from another senior faculty member at the same institution.
While on that rotation, one of the faculty admired my work ethic and called his friend, the PD at the institution where I matched, and was an advocate on my behalf. That being said, this was a visiting rotation that I had set up on my own. Additionally, of the top 5 positions on my rank list, 4/5 were 'manufactured runs' where I had either sought out programs to do a rotation there or had people within the programs who were my advocate. I did not attend one of the previously mentioned schools and would prefer to remain anonymous.
I did, however, do my 3rd year clinical rotations in the UK which was an awesome experience and a good talking point in my interviews. Hope this helps! Malik, thanks for commenting and for the link to your school's website. I was able to find some other links that might help prospective students. Here they are. Interesting read- My boyfriend just left 2 days ago for Saba University School of Medicine. His father, (who's an MD as well, graduated from Sackler in Israel, and is an anesthesiologist) seemed to support his decision to go there.
He wasn't able to get into the US due to his undergrad GPA. (It's a 3.3, bad freshman year, recovered over the next 3 years), yet he got a 35 on the MCAT. I know his case is completely unique, as he's not the traditional Carib student. To me, that score is very, very good!
I've been researching his school a lot, and since it's smaller, it's been hard to find any info regarding their match rates, quality of education, clinical rotations, etc. I guess I'm just worried that he went and took out a ton of student loans, only to get screwed over in the end. Maybe you have some insight into this school I'm missing? Hi, I am a former Cuban medical student. In Cuba I did five years of medicine school and came to the United States. I'm 26 and I intend to continue my studies here. I met with the president of a university in the Caribbean (USAT Monserrat).
They have a campus in Miami and they don’t require the MCAT. Only with my transcripts of 5 years of medical school in Cuba I can enroll, 3 year after I’m a FMG. The school website is a joke and the admission process is very informal. They came to Miami only a week monthly and you need to get the clinical practice hours by you own.
I want to be a pediatric or general surgeon, and I don’t want to spend years of sacrifices and money for nothing. On the other hand if I make the college (3 or 4 years), and medical school (4 years) I'm afraid that my age when applying to a surgical residency (34 years or so) will be an impediment to achieve my goals.
Any advice will be welcome. Anonymous former Cuban med student, thanks for your comments. First, please re-read my post and pay particular attention to the parts about the chances of matching for a 5-year position in a surgical program.
Notice that even the offshore schools with good reputationps are matching a very small percentage of their graduates in surgery. The school you mentioned is not well-known. To be honest, I'm not sure you could match in any specialty with a degree from there. Ask them what percent of their grads match in any specialty. Ask them for the names of some recent grads so you can verify the information. Please research all of this carefully. I would advise you to gather as much information as you can.
It will be hard as a 34-year-old to start a surgery residency, but it may be the better choice. The match rates for all these schools are unknown. What they tell you is which students matched and where they matched. What they don't tell you is how many students didn't match and what percent of students didn't match. If you did not see my recent post about this year's match (you should take a look at it. Encyclopedia Of Hydrocarbons Eni Pdf Download.
I assume by 'American University' you mean 'American University of the Caribbean.' Other schools have those words in their names. All Caribbean schools are not the same. As I point out the the recent post, you need to research the schools you are interested in very carefully. The chances of matching also depend on your choice of specialty. For Caribbean grads, family medicine and internal medicine are not hard to get into.
Some of the surgical specialties are very hard. Anonymous said. Hey, seeking some serious advice. I am a student who went to a pretty decent university ( university of Georgia) however my gpa took a beating as well as facing some personal issues within the first two years. I also did bad pretty bad on my mcat. When it was all said and done i graduated with a 3.2 gpa and 20 mcat. Now i have been accepted into Ross and also accepted into a Masters program at PCOM.
I wanted to see what your advice would be, whether to retake my mcat and reapply or to go with Ross and not waste anymore time. I fully understand you can not tell me what to do, but I did want to know what you would do in my place. My work ethic is pretty stellar, and I have drive and motivation. However I do not want to be Naive and make a mistake.
I have research, medical missions trip, shadowed and did community service outside medicine/science related fields. I know residency spots for foreign graduated students is decreasing each and every year. What i fear the most of course is not matching anywhere. I don't mind retaking and studying for the MCAT as well. You are right. I can't tell you what to do, and I wouldn't want to. Ross is one of the Caribbean schools that seems to do well in placing students in residencies.
However, no Caribbean school ever discusses the number or percentage of students who go unmatched and never secure a residency position. Only the very best Ross graduates are accepted into categorical general surgery slots.
Very few go into surgical subspecialties. If you want to be an internist or family practitioner you probably have a good chance of doing so. There is also the matter of tuition.
I do not know how offshore graduates who never find a residency position pay off their student loans. Regarding the MCAT, do you really think you're going to go from a score of 20 to >30? And there is still the matter of your 3.2 GPA which will not be too attractive to US medical schools. The comment thread on this post hasn't been too active, but maybe some others will comment on your situation. Anonymous said. Hello Scalp, thanks for all the info here.
I applied for several in state schools last year and didn't make it into any of them. I don't really have the money or desire to be doing that again, especially if I am just going to be rejected again. My academics are slightly wonky (3.01 GPA but 31 on MCAT) but I have also been working full time as a scribe in a trio of local EDs for the past 2.5 years, logging nearly 3000 hours side by side with emergency medicine physicians. I have been looking at Caribbean schools as an option, and in particular the Trinity School of Medicine in St. Vincent and the Grenadines.
They boast small class sizes and an average residency match rate of 86% (Additionally I am NOT interested to going into surgery and most likely would be looking at Internal Medicine. I was wondering if you would have any advice regarding my situation. Thank you very much! Sorry for the delayed response. I had never heard of Trinity, but it may be an option. Is there any way to verify that they really matched 86% of their graduates?
If I were you, I would try to contact some of the recent graduates and see what their experience was. If the school won't give you their names, I would proceed with caution. You could also google the programs that supposedly matched with Trinity grads and see if in fact they have residents on their rosters from Trinity. If they are not listed, I suggest you call a few programs and see if you can get an idea of how those Trinity grads are doing. Hello Skeptical Scalpel, The 53% number is an oft cited figure that doesn't really put much into context. Some offshore medical schools fair better than others, for instance St. George's had a match rate of ~69% whereas Ross is at around the high 50's according to the last ECFMG report (2014) - you can simply check the match rate of the respective country of origin of a US IMG - some countries just have one school.
Personally, I interviewed at a few MD and DO schools and, while waitlisted at the former and accepted to the latter, I decided to attend an American program at Tel Aviv University. Israeli medical schools are a great example of precisely why the 53% figure is not appropriate - graduates from Sackler, Technion and Ben Gurion average an 83% match rate, above that of DO graduates, and have a good chance of matching into competitive specialities.
Thank you for the comment. My reason for choosing Sackler over American medical schools stems from their Tel Aviv University's world renown research facilities and Israel's efficient healthcare system — and of course myself being Jewish. Indeed, the class is very small - the list you just mentioned - the number is actually 45 (the parentheses indicate more than one student matched into a particular program). That years class was rather small, as I recall 3 did not match and 15 decided to take a year to do research (an unfortunate side effect of wanting a competitive residency with an IMG background).
The year before that (2014), the match was 56/63 (with a spot in urology, 2 dermatology, 1 plastic surgery and 4 general surgeries. This being said, I completely agree that this depends entirely on the student. I think you should take the time to look at the more competitive medical schools beyond the Caribbean and write about them - it's something I would love to read.
My reason for chiming in is the previous commenters mention of Sackler. Thanks again, Doc.
Keep up the good work. When I was 'Turned Out' back in the Eighties, we had to take the FMGEMS (because some wiseguys stole the answer key to the old ECFMG exam) It was a Two Day MONSTER test that flunked about 90% of those who took it, at one point. I made it on Day I (Basic Science) after multiple tries.
Passing score was 75 and MANY of us kept failing with 73-74. There was also the MSKP which we took to transfer into a US School (not many were able to DO this) or get better residencies at teaching hospitals in NYC. Those schools in Mexico and probably offshore have unilateral attendance policies (Physiology teacher comes in once a month, has students give the lecture, and takes attendance for the Whole Month) and maybe five cadavers, rotting, dug up from pauper's graves. The Dean and Assistant Dean are Autocratic Bastards, and you have no academic rights. Not to mention that you have No Civil Rights, or Landlord Tenant rights down there.
Rent the movie 'Bad Medicine' it's VERY Realistic! I am a General Internist.
After YEARS of saying they needed primary care, they are replacing us all with NPs and PAs as well as pharmacy assistants in the CVS Minute Clinics! Even guys from MY school, if they were Good in residency and did a Chief Resident year, went for Cardiology or GI or a lesser fellowship like Onc. Anonymous said. I am a non traditional student. I'm 35 now and graduated in 2013.
I have been supporting my wife while she's gone through veterinary school but now I'm trying to get into medical school. My GPA is avg. 3.5 recovering from an old 1.4 and new MCAT isn't good 495. So with that MCAT would you advise waiting a year and again trying to get into a US school or accepting a spot at SGU? Keeping in mind that I was a U.S.
Navy Hospital Corpsman with the Marine Corps for many years and not interested especially at my age in trying to match to a surgery residency. My interests lie primarily in ED. Any advice would be appreciated. Anonymous said. She's trying to match and ultimately get a small animal surgery residency.
Which in vet med entails doing two years of internships, one rotating small animal med then a year of specialty internship such as small animal surgery, then a 3 year residency. So for the two years I'd be in Grenada, she'd be doing her internships. I'm just torn on going or not. If I wait until summer and redo AMCAS and hopefully score higher on the new MCAT, I would be 36 before I matriculated and 40 at grad. What do you think? The vibe I am getting from your most recent comment is that you really don't want to go to medical school in Grenada, and you just want me to say that's okay. Since I am not you, I am reluctant to do that or tell you what to do.
Bear in mind that you will be 40 at graduation and facing a minimum of three years of residency no matter what field you go into. You haven't mentioned any student loan debt for you or your wife. You should factor that in as well.
Assuming you don't go to SGU and take the new MCAT, what is your backup plan if you don't do as well on the test as you would like and don't get into a US medical school? Tough decisions. I hope I have helped you work through this.
Anonymous said. My wife goes to Oregon State as an in state student but even with that, veterinary school is really expensive and we are approaching the 250K mark.
If I didn't take the SGU spot, my backup plan would be to continue the volunteer research assistant program that i participate in at OHSU, dual apply through AMCAS/ACOMAS and hope I get in somewhere. Barring that, also apply to PA schools next summer.
I'm definitely not looking for you to validate my choices just offer unbiased advice. I feel like my window for medical school is closing and am getting nervous about that. That is a pretty substantial debt. I don't know what the tuition is at SGU, but certainly tuition at any medical school in the US will put you well over $300,000 in total debt. There's also the matter of travel back and forth to Grenada and living expenses. Your third and fourth years will take place somewhere other than Grenada, and there will be living expenses for that too. Even if you go to US med school, you will have living expenses and the interest on your debt will go on.
Maybe you should sit down and do the math on how much time it will take you and your wife to pay off all that debt and how much income you would need to not only do that but also survive. Somewhere in one of my posts is a comment from someone who has a collective debt of more than $300,000 with a spouse, and that individual has been unable to find a residency in any specialty. That couple has zero chance of paying off their debt. I don't know what happens to them as the years pass. Anonymous said. After not doing well enough in undergrad, the rejections from med schools in the country were to be expected.
I spent 2 years trying to avoid the carribean med school route due to reading up on all these forums. But after 2 years I decided to give it a shot. I went to Ross in 2007 and graduated in 2011. I matched into Peds and am now practicing. Debt is well over 200k at the end of it all and I had tried to live low key during my school and residency days.
A few friends of mine did match into surgery some even anesthesia. However the vast majority went into FP and IM. I don't have any stats, just some anecdotal history. Anonymous said. One of the comments made above made the assumption that because Saba University does not publish their match percentage that it must be poor. This is not the case as Saba is in fact one of the better Carib schools.
Their match percentage is over 90% which is close to the American grad rate. Students do tend to match in primary care specialties such as IM, FM, and Peds. However many also match into specialty fields. As for categorical surgery it is true that it is very competitive, but every year a few out of 100++ students who match after graduating from Saba do manage to obtain a cat spot. (Four last year) Do some research prior to making blanket replies to posts and needlessly causing panic in your reader. Anon, sorry to have upset you. There are about 25 Caribbean medical schools.
I didn't have time to dig into the websites of every one of them. I concluded my post by saying that Caribbean grads have a 2.5-3% chance of matching in general surgery.
I counted 142 student matches on the the link you posted. 4/142 = 2.8%. So 2.8% of SABA grads match in general surgery. And that's 2.8% of those who matched in any specialty. We don't know how many didn't match at all or how many students graduate each year. Hi Skeptical Scalpel, It looks like I will be taking the leap to attending St.
Matthew's University in the Caribbean next year. This was my third year applying to medical school, and although it is possible that I could still get into a US medical school it is unlikely. A little about me: undergrad GPA:2.68 in Biomedical Engineering (UNCCH), then 2 years of additional upperlevel undergraduate coursework in Biology and Chemistry (UNCG) GPA:3.85, cummulative GPA: 3.08, and MCAT:34, research experience in mass spectroscopy (NIEHS), neuropathology (Duke), hematology and stem cell therapy (Duke), oncology (Vanderbilt), and organic synthesis (UNCG). I am curious about what you think of the number of residency positions available to Caribbean grads moving forward. Since the match is going to be merged for DO/MD candidates and there have been a large number of DO schools opening, will this force the number of seats available for IMGs to go down? Also, I know that there was a push to better fund and enlarge the number of residency positions in the US. Do you know if this was successful?
Will there be more spots opening up to create more physicians? Thank you, Ben. As far as I can tell, nothing has changed since I wrote this post. The number of residency positions has increased slightly every year. However, there are several new US med schools and many established schools are increasing class sizes.
There are about 25 Caribbean med schools and new ones are opening seemingly every month. If you do well in school, get a good USMLE Step 1 score, and choose your specialty wisely, you may be ok. But no one knows what it will be like 4 years from now. Anonymous, thank you for your comment. The 2016 match data posted on the Ross website (lists all of the specialties match by the 778 graduates this year.
The overwhelming majority of graduates matched in family medicine or internal medicine. Two graduates matched in dermatology. That is 0.25%.
19 (2.4%) matched in OB/GYN. For general surgery [presumably categorical since preliminary is listed separately] 20 graduates (2.6%) matched. If you add another 8 listed a matching in 'surgery,' that would make it 3.6%. However, one of those is also listed as having matched to anesthesia for the PGY-2 year so it may be that 'surgery' means preliminary surgery. Either way, the percentage is not very high.
I stand by the last paragraph of my post which is as follows: 'If you go to an offshore school, the best case scenario is that you'll have about a 50% or perhaps slightly better chance of matching to a residency position in any specialty and about a 2.5% to 3% chance of matching in general surgery. These odds may be worse if you choose a lesser-known school.' Hi Skep, Great piece. Hopefully I can offer some insight.
First, I work at Trinity and I fully support your suggestion of looking for verifiable data out there and Googling around for our grads. While we're not going to give out a list of alums out of respect for their privacy, if someone has an interest in a particular program or programs where we have someone, we are always willing to contact them on the inquiring party’s behalf for a chat. There’s also, as you mentioned, just Googling around to the individual program sites and seeing for yourself. (Actually, doing this one day for a blog entry is how I realized we had so many grads become chief residents). If you're curious about any more on the topic of verification, I'd be happy to have a conversation with you (or anyone reading this) about our own uphill fight for transparency in IMG numbers/outcomes and what some less-than-reputable schools out there are doing to gate their data to achieve their published match rates.
It’s also worth commenting on our relative anonymity “never heard of ‘em!, etc.” We're young (founded in ‘08) and small (we do three start dates a year, but our largest class has a limit of around 80 students.) That said, we're proud of what we've built in a relatively short time--we're in the minority of schools in the Caribbean that has CAAM-HP accreditation-- and there are some major developments in approvals and certification right around the corner for us. That or anything else, just click any of the “contact” buttons on the page my name is linked to, you’ll get to me. Regardless, great blog, thoughtful posts. Sackler School of Medicine CLASS OF 2017 Match ANESTHESIOLOGY Icahn SOM St. Lukes-Roosevelt-NY Maimonides Med Ctr- NY (2) St. Elizabeths Med Ctr-MA SUNY HSC Brooklyn-NY Thomas Jefferson Univ-PA Yale-New Haven Hosp-Ct DERMATOLOGY Emory Univ SOM-GA Univ.
Of Tennessee COM-Memphis, TN EMERGENCY MEDICINE Harbor-UCLA-Med Ctr-CA Mt. Sinai Med Ctr-Miami-FL Stony Brook Teach Hosps-NY FAMILY MEDICINE Jackson Park Hosp-IL Wilson Mem Reg Med Ctr-NY INTERNAL MEDICINE Cedars-Sinai Medical Center-CA Cleveland Clinic Fdn-OH George Washington Univ-DC Icahn SOM St. I just wanted to comment about med schools in Canada & UK. Someone had stated earlier that it might be easier to attend a med school in Canada or UK if you can't get into a med school in US. Canada has fewer med schools than US and as a result I would say is more competitive also because of the high GPA & Mcat score requirements. Also, most med schools in Canada require you to either be a Canadian permanent resident or citizen to be accepted. Getting into a UK med school is also very competitive especially a school in London so I think you will have a better chance getting accepted into a US medical school than a Canadian or UK med school.
U can do more research on d schools.